No submitting questions in advance, no take-it-or-leave-it prepared statements, no off-limit topics, and no hesitation when responding to the interviewer. It's rare that a national political figure agrees to a no-holds-barred interview, but U.S. Senator Richard Durbin, a Springfield Democrat, thinks that's how it should be when elected officials interact with the news media.
"What has happened to the Fourth Estate of journalism? You ought to be putting me on the spot where I stand, just like you are doing right now," said Durbin during a June 7 interview with Illinois Times. "It is so seldom that I run into a reporter asking me anything about things like what's going on in Gaza or what's going on with Trump."
OK, so let the questions begin. President Joe Biden recently issued an executive order to significantly restrict the number of asylum-seekers crossing the United States-Mexico border. Isn't that a bit like shutting the barn door after all the horses have already escaped?
"Horses would still be coming, I want to tell you, in numbers far larger than the current limits, but it's a step in the right direction," Durbin said. "It may work, or it may not. The courts may let him do it, or they may not. We'll see. Trying to find the right mix of policies to serve our values and to police our borders is a tough challenge.
"I think Biden has struck out by limiting the number of people, that will undoubtedly mean some hardships for people who otherwise would be deserving," Durbin said. "But having said that, I do applaud the fact that he's given up on Congress taking any initiative on this."
Durbin said his views on immigration have been formed by his own family history, as the son of an immigrant mother who settled with her family at the age of two in East St. Louis. But he admitted that the southern border situation is "a real catastrophe, a real crisis," and that the immigration issue has become a "political football."
"Immigration in this nation of immigrants has been a divisive issue from the beginning. I'm convinced that someone on the Mayflower stood on the shore and said, 'That's enough, we've got all we need for a while,'" Durbin said. "And anyone like Trump who stands up and says people coming in from Mexico are murderers and rapists and uses words like poisoning the blood of America, I mean, that's just a racist comment."
Durbin is chairman of the powerful Senate Judiciary Committee and for more than 10 years has been urging the passage of ethics legislation for the U.S. Supreme Court. But he's not optimistic that such legislation will pass this year, despite recent news reports about Supreme Court justices receiving lavish gifts and vacations from wealthy businesspeople.
"If we could get Republican support, we would pass a code of ethics in the Senate and House and it would be imposed on the Supreme Court like many other standards that we've established," Durbin said. "But at this point the Republicans have decided that since the miscreants are their own loyalists, they're not going to be part of it.
"Federal judges across the board are bound by a code of ethics and their conduct is reviewable," Durbin said. "Those nine people feel that they're somehow special and don't have to live by the same standards. I think they're wrong."
Durbin is critical of the news media for largely overlooking one major issue he's dealing with on the Judiciary Committee, the regulation of the social media industry. He said the average parent has no way of knowing what their children are being exposed to through mobile phones, and legislation to regulate the industry is long overdue.
"A year ago, we passed bills in committee that would have regulated the social media industry. Unanimous, 21 members of the Judiciary Committee, 11 Democrats and 10 Republicans, and we've got some fire-breathers on the right. They all voted for it," Durbin said. "It should have passed the whole Senate long ago, but Big Tech stopped it. They're making too much money, they're too powerful, they don't want regulation.
"It doesn't infringe on free speech. To take a nude photograph of a child and exploit it on the internet is a horrible situation, and when it's happened, sometimes the social media platforms wash their hands of it and say we can't control it," Durbin said. "They're wrong. We can make sure they control it if they pass my bill."
But seriously, does that bill have a chance of passage this year?
"The bill is still active, it just needs to be passed, it's on the floor of the Senate," Durbin said. "I think there's a possibility it can pass before the election."
Speaking of the election, Durbin is one of the top-ranking Democrats in the U.S. Senate, which his party controls by a slim 51 to 49 margin. Can the Democrats retain control of the Senate in November?
"It will be close, it will be hard-fought, and Joe Biden being reelected president is the key to it," Durbin said. "We have several senators who are retiring. One of the seats is problematic, at least for the moment, in West Virginia. But we have a chance of picking up some seats and I haven't given up on Texas or Florida. But even if we retain control, we'll have a tough time getting federal judges appointed."
Durbin has never been a fan of Donald Trump, and Trump's recent conviction on 34 felony counts does not seem to have dimmed the former president's standing with his followers, whom Durbin describes as "cult-like."
"I don't get it. Joe Biden years ago ran for president and had to withdraw from the race when it was discovered that he had plagiarized a speech by a British politician. Plagiarized one speech," Durbin said. "Now look at his opponent in this election, Donald Trump. Consider what he's been found guilty of. Thirty-four felony counts. Thirty-four."
The situation in Gaza is also on the public's mind, and Durbin supports Israel's right to exist and to defend itself.
"But when it comes to the tactics that Netanyahu is using in this war, some of them I find reprehensible," Durbin said. "It's a humanitarian crisis unlike anything in my lifetime. It is a terrible tragedy and it's not one we can ignore."
It's hard to ignore the Gaza situation when cities and college campuses have been in an uproar with protests disrupting the day-to-day lives of residents and students. Does Durbin support those protests?
"So long as they don't engage in violence and the disruption of regular university activities, or any type of vandalism, I support them," Durbin said.
Durbin was asked if the public has grown weary of the war in Ukraine, which has entered its third year with no end in sight.
"I think people want to see this war come to an end soon, and I hope it does, but it has to be on Ukraine's terms," Durbin said. "They are the ones who will decide what is acceptable."
Durbin said the Senate is poised to pass a new farm bill drafted by retiring Senator Debbie Stabenow from Michigan, a Democrat. But the bill's passage will require "some cooperation from the Republicans," something Durbin is optimistic can occur this year. The $150 million to finish the railroad relocation projects in Springfield is also on Senator Durbin's mind, and he keeps pushing for the final federal funding release that will "finally move the railroads in Springfield into the 21st century."
This November will mark 42 years since Durbin defeated incumbent Republican Congressman Paul Findley to begin his tenure as a federal elected official. Durbin was subsequently elected to the U.S. Senate in 1996. Although Durbin's seat isn't up for election in 2024, what does the future hold for the long-term Illinois Democrat?
"I have two and a half years left in this term and we'll decide after that," said Durbin, who will turn 80 years of age in November.
Now, back to the news media. Durbin talked about a June 6 incident where he was stopped on Interstate 55 in Bloomington because of a dust storm that held up traffic for more than an hour.
"That dust storm wasn't reported in the news. I can't imagine that would have happened in the past," Durbin said.
"It's not uncommon for me to have a press conference in Chicago and for all the TV stations to show up with cameramen but no reporters. There are no questions asked. None. I finish up my statement, they wrap up their cameras and go back to the studio," Durbin said. "The people are being denied basic information to draw their own judgments about the conduct of elected officials, and it's because of the big corporations gobbling up the small media outlets.
"We need to have people that are interested in supporting local journalism. It's a battle now, and it's not one we are winning," Durbin said. "When you consider the size and content of newspapers and other sources of information, it's no wonder that people turn to Facebook and other sources."
